hey everyone,.
getting some feedback, what would you say are the core teachings or were the core teachings of the jehovah's witnesses.
the teachings that make them unique, the teachings that if they weren't there the jehovah's witnesses wouldn't exist.. i would say the teaching of 1914 and god choosing jws as the right religion would probably be the core teaching.
Oompa--I agree that there are absolutely some big doctrines that haven't changed. The big 3 are (1) no trinity; (2) no hell; (3) no immortal soul. (note that they are all things that WT/JW people don't believe in...I think it's interesting that the most important doctrines to a JW are things they don't believe in).
To me, the combination of the GB=God and "the end is near" trumps everything, thus forming the core of JW/WT theology.
hey everyone,.
getting some feedback, what would you say are the core teachings or were the core teachings of the jehovah's witnesses.
the teachings that make them unique, the teachings that if they weren't there the jehovah's witnesses wouldn't exist.. i would say the teaching of 1914 and god choosing jws as the right religion would probably be the core teaching.
My take on it:
These two doctrines form the core of the JW belief structure. Number 1 allows the actual theology to morph as necessary to fit the needs of the Watchtower leadership. Number 2 keeps the Witnesses simultaneously frightened (of being killed at Armageddon) and excited (about living in paradise), so they stay motivated to do what the WT leadership says without questioning it.
minimus started a thread asking people to prove that jws don't have the truth.... but, instead of proving they don't, i'd like to see someone prove that the witnesses do have the truth.. this is your thread jw apologists....convince me why you have the truth.. to all you apostates and nay-sayers, please allow the apologists to have their say without harrassing them.
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Ok, here are a few that I've heard:
there are a few here that say we are not being fair and that we wrongfully bash the witnesses.. simply prove that the religion is not correct by any standard..
Even assuming the Bible is God's Infallible Word (which is quite an assumption), JWs fail for at least the following reasons:
every year i think about this and i believe every year the percent goes up but it is hard to know what the number is because any doubting jw lives in fear of being found out.
they know how their lives would be permanently changed if they openly stated that they just couldn't believe it anymore.
i think there could be kingdom halls were 50% of the people attending don't believe they have the truth but think they are the only one that feels that way because every other doubter is doing the same thing they are doing.
There's a big difference between disagreeing with a JW teaching/practice and not believing it's The Truth.
I think every Witness has something he/she disagrees with. Common examples include (1) no oral sex between marriage mates; (2) must be a JW to survive Armageddon; (3) shunning DF'd family members; (4) silly prophecy stuff like the 7 trumpet blasts, 2300 days in Daniel representing the time between some WT articles and an annual meeting, etc.
But despite disagreeing with (or "not understanding") certain doctrines, these JWs still believe it's "The Truth." I'd say at least 90% of the baptized JWs at an average meeting believe it's The Truth.
And, as has been pointed out before, a large number of JWs don't understand many of the doctrines anyway...and they don't care, either! I know I didn't care much about doctrine, and I was a born-in JW. If I had not started digging into the doctrines, I'd still be a believing JW. And by "believing JW," I mean a JW that believes the WTS/FDS/GB is God's Channel and the JW religion is The Truth. Of course, I never believed in any of the 4 examples above...so you can be the judge about how much of a "believer" I ever was.
well had a really good weekend away from home, but i guess i knew that the respite from the wts would end.
tuesdays are the day my wife has her personal bible study with the sister and she has also had the husband come over on tuesday afternoons so the son can have the pleasure of a bible study (which he loathes, he is a high school junior and has no interest in this stuff).
i get home from work late, after a fairly long day and the guy is still there.
Sounds like a fun conversation! I have a couple of thoughts. First, the JW "teachers" almost certainly identified your arguments as "apostate" and will likely warn your wife that you are using apostate reasoning. That's JW-speak for someone who asks questions that they can't answer. It wouldn't surprise me if the JW backs off from trying to have Bible discussions with you. The excuse may be that you're not honest-hearted (which is JW-speak for gullible).
That's how JWs work. They love to have Bible discussions with people. But if you don't fall in line with their point of view after a few discussions, they lose patience with you. Of course, that's my personal experience and your mileage may vary.
And I love the way you ended your conversation with the question about whether we could still be friends. He answered that he could no longer maintain a friendship, since we would no longer have a common belief. Perhaps a response could be: "do you consider me a friend today?" He would probably say yes. You could reply, "but we don't have a common belief today, so what's the difference?" Or something like that.
are any of you still 'politically neutral' for biblical reasons?
just curious.. .
lwt.
Nope, never was. I always considered myself a patriotic, Democratic-leaning Witness. I always thought our national anthem was a beautiful song, and as a child I felt guilty for humming it. I always thought our country, with all of its flaws, was the greatest on earth and was glad to be born in the USA.
it seems to me that witnesses are political in .
much the same way they are racist: i.e.
but not out loud.. i recall a conversation during a coffee break.
In general, there are parts of the JW lifestyle/theology that fit well with the political left--the "new system" is basically a communist utopia. And there are parts that fit well with the political right--the "moral majority" type movements and social conservatism in general (anti-gay, anti-science, pro-censorship, etc.).
In practice, I've found that Witness political leanings are fairly predictable. The well-to-do small business owner JWs are the ones who watch Fox, listen to Rush Limbaugh, and bash liberals and democrats.
Almost all African-American JWs in my circle hated Bush and had a very difficult time staying neutral once Obama was nominated.
by "theology" i mean "the study of god (gk.
: theos).. jws keep rabbiting on ad nauseum about the trinity teaching being "irrational", "impossible to understand", etc.. i do not want this thread to be about the trinitarian doctrine.. i want to be given an explanation of what a jw believes.
i have seen so many arrows and spears thrown by jws, i want to know exactly what they are defending.. i want to see an explanation of "god" that is rational and can be understood.. doug.
JW theology...like the theology of many other organized religions...consists of:
and lots of other nonsense. Hope that helps.
i had asked my wife, who is in the study phase with a jw sister about the selection of the jws by jc in 1918/1919 time frame and she had actually never heard of that.. the husband of this woman she is studying with has been chomping at the bit to talk to me...well my wife said she will ask him to come show me, using only the bible, how this selection was made...of course she did not clear this request with the dubman before telling me she would do this.. i am guessing he will be there when i get home from work tomorrow, she is also torturing our son with a bs now (her son from a previous marriage).. what sort of reach do you think he will try to make to show this...i am guessing he will try to show 1914 from the daniel/revelation stuff, if he does this i am going to ask him to show 607bce from a non jw source....since i believe it is 586/587 bce as a starting date......i hope to keep him on the 1918/1919 topic, and have some examples of their beliefs from that era to talk about as well.
Proving the WTS appointment in 1919 from the Bible requires some incredibly convoluted scriptural gymnastics. In addition to the points noted above, Malachi 3:1-5 comes into play. In this cryptic passage, God promises to send "his messenger" to cleanse his temple with the lye of a refiner. The WT interprets thiese verses as having two fulfillments (of course).
First (if I recall correctly), this was fulfilled when Jesus came down to earth. He judged the nation of Israel as being unclean and started his own religion--Christianity. The second fulfillment was in 1918-19, when Jesus came back, judged all the religions claiming to be Christian, and selected the WTS as his organization.
So this is how they get the parallel between Jesus' earthly ministry and his 1918-19 judgment. In the first fulfillment, it took Jesus 3.5 years from when he was anointed until he established the new Christian congregation (Pentecost 33 A.D., I think). Thus, as a holdover from Russell's parallel dispensations, the WTS assumed that Jesus would take 3.5 years from being installed as king until he started judging the other religions and picking the one he liked.
Note that I'm doing all of this from memory, so I may have gotten some details wrong. If so, feel free to point them out. But I think my comments above accurately reflect current WT teaching on the matter--at least at a high level.
Also, you asked about whether it would be wise to mention that modern Bible Student groups adhere more closely to what the WTS taught in 1918-19. I don't think it would add much to the conversation to bring this up. The JW response is that the light gets brighter and those Bible Students are stuck in the past. It would be a distraction and would likely lead off on a tangent.
